Invisible Adjunct

american's do put vinegar on their french fries, but only at fairs and on special occasions.

Interesting. "At fairs" suggests that it might have once been more common, but is now considered an old-fashioned treat (the oldy-timey way to eat a fry)? If only Martha Stewart weren't heading off to prison. She could bring back vingear on fries as one of those "good things" that evoke the stylish simplicity of days gone by -- like Depression glassware, embroidered pillowcases, and homemade blackcurrant jam.

Hmm, I just had "dinner" a place that does burgers and fries (and little else) and on each table was a bottle of vinegar.

And, (we are going to have to sustain this thread for a week, after all) I've had fries at a Greek place that were covered in garlic and then lemon juice--unexpectedly excellent.

Finally, I've never heard of Anne Murray.

Possibly because vinegar is sharp, acidic, physical, ironic, critical, and confrontational, and therefore threatens the pallid conservatism of the freedom fries. As if Joan Didion were to interview Anne Murray.

Why don't Americans put vinegar on their french fries?

Move to Rhode Island.

#4 was mine.

flu

Why we don't use vinegar?

First, a hypothesis unsupported by research:

Almost all the vinegar in the US has been supplanted by factory-made industrial acetic acid solution crap ("white vinegar"). Even the mass-market "apple cider vinegar" is factory-made crap made by mixing the white stuff with apple juice. As a result, most US residents will simply have no idea what vinegar really is. They have to go to a real pub (rare), or some other extraordinary place like Zingerman's Deli in Ann Arbor ( http://www.zingermans.com ), to get real vinegar these days. Therefore anybody who tries it with the vinegar one can buy will deeply regret it.

The only other vinegar that has any market share in the US is balsamico, a current BoBo fad which is alas also misleading crap because most available in stores is factory-made &c &c. A trip to Zingerman's, and a taste of the $40/ounce good stuff will set anybody straight in a minute.

Second, at least some of those of us who live north of, say, Windsor do use vinegar.

Because it doesn't taste very good?

What you really need to put on french fries is a nice, freshly made aioli mayonnaise. (There are a number of other flavoured mayonnaises that would fit the bill, although fresh and homemade is crucial.) Of course, most people I know think that's revolting, but that's just cause they've never tried it.

Well, (to quote a famous US president) if one puts ketchup on one's fries, one gets both vinegar and a vegetable. And since acetic acid is generally made from corn in the US, this really is like having *two* vegetables on one's fries.

This makes the simple dish virtually a full meal, invoking the Simplicity and Completeness of a Simpler Time Gone By. It's a Good Thing.

Please excuse my ignorance, but what is a "BoBo fad?" It's in post #7. Thanks.

When I was in college in Boston in the 80s, I waitressed at the DeliHaus in Kenmore Square. This one group of students that came in regularly would order a loaf of white bread, a few orders of steak fries (they were delicious there) and a few sides of mayo and they'd make white bread and french fry sandwiches, all glued together with mayo. I never tried it, although I should have, since I'm obviously curious about to this day.

Hey, I was in Kenmore Sq. a lot back in the 80's!--used to work at BU bookstore. In fact, I even went to the Deli-Haus--hmm, are we about to have a small world moment?--and a "Brit" bar that was (is?) very near the Deli Haus named Cornwalls, where, not suprisingly, one could get the most amazing fries with, you guessed it, your heats fill of vinegar.

Now, in the interest of Ogged's trenchant point, that we have to keep this going for the next week, do you suppose decisions in academic hiring can be made or broken on what one orders with their fries? I'm sure of it! The injustice, the outrage! When will the Chronicle do a first peson piece on this?

By the way: "BoBo's" = "Bourgeios Bohemians"

In London I knew a Kiwi woman who ate her chips with Heinz salad cream. **glurgh**

Sadly, the Deli Haus is no longer in existence. And I like my fries with ketchup, vinegar, mayonaise, or thousand island dressing.

The hands-down best accompaniment to fries is a vinegary hot sauce.

That's sad that the Deli Haus is gone. I'd heard they cleaned up Kenmore Sq., which is a shame. No more Rat, right?

Ah, rock on, Mr. Butch, wherever you are!

(note: if you were in Kenmore in the 80's, you know who I am talking about)

French fries are good with a light dusting of chili pepper and salt. The mayonnaise topping I've seen in Europe sold from those pushcarts that sell fries with all kinds of exotic toppings and expect you to eat your fries with a fork. It seems to me that vinegar is originally an English thing, as with fish and chips, which would explain its continued existence in the northeast.

Re. # 7

Yeah, but Zingermans -- great though it is -- is full of BoBo Euro-Wannabee food snobs who think that Balsamic Vinegar *should* cost 40 bucks for it to taste any good.

They sell 85p jars of Marmite for $10 there, for crying out loud!

Poor, poor deluded Americans ;)

And vinegar is definitely alive and well in the UK on fish, on chips, on fish and chips ... but I side with the French, and eat my fries with mustard mayonnaise

I've seen vinegar offered for fries, but pretty much just in brew-pub settings, where the fries tend towards the pan-fried-skin-still-on-wedges-o'-greasy-goodness variety, rather than the skinny dip-em-in-lard kind (I like both).

So much depends on the fries, and where they are served. The thought of a McDonald's fry with vinegar on it is disturbing.

The fast food chain Wendy's has vinegar in several varieties for your fries.

I like the curly seasoned fries that one gets at Blake's Lottaburger (home of the green chile cheeseburger) and Boardwalk Fries.

Since we have to sustain this for a week I'll launch my Zingerman's rant.

Their prices are outrageous. Their deli meats only middling. Their ordering system is annoying as all hell. They have 100 sandwiches which you have to order by number. Try getting a hot pastrami on rye with mustard which I tried to order. It wasn't a choice. The order taker gave me a nasty look for not ordering by number and it took as 10 minutes to figure out how to get me what I wanted. Let me point out that hot pastrami on rye with mustard is the most basic deli food there is. It is the gold standard test of Jewish delis and it isn't even on the menu? That was a bad sign. But like a masochist, I went back for more. This time it was fish for a luncheon. I got nova and it was so salty as to be inedible for twice what the supermarket charged. The whitefish wasn't any better. And have they ever heard of thin rye bread? Again, a Jewish deli should have that stuff down, not just marble Challah with egg-beater wash (ok, I made that last part up).

The fact that the lines are out the door in that place is further proof that nobody in Ann Arbor knows squat about food.

If you happen to be passing through, there is one place worth going. Knight's. No vegetarians need apply, though. This is an absolutely awesome steak joint that has a cheap mid-week special and huge drinks for cheap. Pretty decent wine cellar too. It looks like a strip club from the outside and the inside looks like somebody's basement from 1975 - but the meat!

All information is several years old but unlikely to have changed.

But let us speak of Leo Burdock's in Dublin: lights reflected in the wet cobbles of Werburgh Street, rain, and volatile saturday night queues in B's fish and chip shop where everyone goes after getting kicked out of the pub at closing time. It is a space of temporary suspension of class warfare. Some wear parkas and/or shake out borrowed umbrellas in the doorway before entering. There is an atmosphere of limited incomes and limited chances, aggressively defended cultural values that could unfortunately tip over in the direction of narrow populism and racism. But intellectuals are there too, meditating on globalization, and also people in expensive cars who arrive and queue up uncomplainingly, knowing that the experience is unavailable elsewhere. The fish is battered and large, the fries firm but slightly droopy, the white paper wrapping an elegant and passionate gesture against the styrofoam container and other examples of cultural self-destruction.

The vinegar is in large, converted soda bottles which sit on the counter-top at strategic intervals. The customer adds it him- or herself, as desired.

flu

Yes, Kenmore Square has been cleaned up some. I saw it ever so briefly a couple of months ago when I was visiting folks in the Boston burbs one weekend. I wanted to walk around BU but it was -6 degrees out that weekend and it was just tfcold out. But the square looked all cleaned up and homogenized.

Chris, I'm afraid that, although I was in Boston 1982-1988, I don't know this Mr. Butch of whom you speak. Unfortunately, I was too much of a nerd and didn't do the bar/drinking/smoking scene.

I live in NJ now, about 45 min. from NYC. Obviously, this area is strong in some specific food groups, e.g., Italian, Jewish, etc. This kind of stuff cracks me up: My husband used to travel out to Minneapolis for work and his hosts would get so excited to bring him out for Italian food. "Oh, you'll love it! It's the best!" And they take him to the Olive Garden. Oy.

My local pub serves fries -- the seasoned crosscut kind -- topped with melted Stilton. They are a glorious artery-clogging treat, with or without vinegar, which is always on the table next to the ketchup.

I've also eaten fish and chips with curry sauce at a now-defunct fish & chips place in Queens. It wasn't nearly as weird as it sounds.

I cannot enjoy vinegar with the usual fry offerings from the usual fast food restaurants. I wouldn't have thought of it before, and the idea is repugnant to me now, for reasons I can't quite name. The fry has to be thickly cut, among other things... Someone mentioned county fairs; "county fair" is exactly the sort of fry I like to consume with vinegar.

Anyway, the french fry sandwich mentioned above is rather popular in Pittsburgh, specifically at a local chain named Primanti's. I like the Primanti's cappicola with cheese, but it's a heart attack on a plate. (What is cappicola, anyway?)

It's probably an Eastern thing, as several posters have noted. The best place to eat fries with vinegar is at Kennywood's Potato Patch, with the Thunderbolt running behind you. It's Pittsburgh, so the vinegar is aber naturlich Heinz 57.

"do you suppose decisions in academic hiring can be made or broken on what one orders with their fries? I'm sure of it! The injustice, the outrage! When will the Chronicle do a first person piece on this?"

Now, that's an interesting idea. The candidate and interviewers go out to lunch and, one false step by the candidate, poof! lunch - and the interview - is over.

That's kind of funny that "BoBo's" = "Bourgeios Bohemians" b/c I call my cats "bobos" and, you know what? they sometimes act like bourgeois bohemians.

If we are going to be talking about sandwich and fries places, let me put in a vote for Roy's Place in Gaithersburg, MD. Good sandwiches, very good fries, many many beers to choose from...an altogether most excellent place to go. It helps to keep me sane, until I once again have access to the pub scene in inner-city Melbourne.

Because there are four fundamental food groups:

sugar
salt
grease
caffine.

Vinegar contains none of them.

Put salt on your fries and drink a Coke with them, and you have a 100% nutritionally balanced meal:-)

I've never met any any Continental Europeans who put Malt vinegar on their chips (i.e. fries) like the Brits do.

Malt vinegar ... yummy! Although we have to order the good stuff from the same mail order house where we get our Branston pickle. The local Asian store carries proper Heinz baked beans (for putting on toast or spud) and Heinz salad cram (which tastes a lot like Miracle Whip to me, but the resident Brit says no). Does anyone know if such staples are available in Vancouver, BC?

At any rate, good malt vinegar or what they serve (for .25 euros) in German McDonalds -- tartar sauce!

I knew this blog would produce the goods sometime, even if it wasn't a tip about a tenure-track job! Damned Medievalist, what is the address of this Branston pickle-supplying mail order company?

5 guys, the best burger joint in Northern Virginia, provides vinegar for your fries. But then they also have a sign telling you what sort of potatoes they're making the fries from today.

I'm originally from Buffalo, where malt vinegar on your fries is not some strange excentricity, but the way you are supposed to eat them. One of my favorite childhood memories is of riding my bike to one of the many roadside burger-fries-and-ice-cream stands and eating curly fries with malt vinegar and salt.

I also love fries with mayonaise - I recall being wowed by the belgian fries at Pommes Frites in NYC, which were served with aoili - yum. If Pommes Frites and Gray's Papaya would move to D.C. I would die a happy (and likely very fat) woman.[1]

[1] Didn't know about the vinegar at Five Guys - I've only tried the burgers. Thanks for the tip.

I lived in Buffalo (or Barf-lo, or bar-flo, depending on what you'd like to emphasize) for 5 horrid years, and never once did I encounter vinegar for fries. Perhaps, though, I missed the "haute cusine" side of Buffalo.

And Isabel, Mr. Butch was a street musician who used to play a beaten-all-to-cr*p Stratocaster out of a cheap radio speaker around Kenmore Sq. He looked a little like, and definitey sought to emulate Jimi Hendrix. He wasn't very good, but he was something of a cult figure back in the day.

Nerdly or not, I bet if you were walking around Kenmore and Back Bay in the 80's you saw him at some point.

Go Sox!

Chips with Curry? (#22) I know that place in Queens. It was called "Chips," oddly enough, and was run by transpanted Irish and Brits. They also had English vinegar available. Sadly most of the block they were on was destroyed by a fire last June and Chips lost a considerable amount of walk in trade.

There are a few authentic fish and chips left in NYC, most notably "A Salt and Battery" on Greenwich, and you can buy English condiments throughout the Irish neighborhoods or at "Murray's of Keswick" on Hudson. NYC also has a number of small Belgian style fries shops, and they're all located in the East Village

The English and Irish both consume a bland mayonnaiseyish curry sauce on their chips: I've had it in London, Manchester, Derry, Belfast and Glencolumbcille. Raj and all that.

ttbdan the Northern English also put gravy on their chips. I'm told it's nice but I can't bring myself to do it.

Thirty or more years ago (sigh) I was in Spain during a summer holiday, and my hosts took me to a fair where they bought me french fries served with powdered sugar.

I recall liking them more than I expected, but I don’t think I’ll run right out to try that again.

Where I live, (Bedford, a not-very-big town in rural Pennsylvania that's about halfway between Harrisburg and Pittsburgh on the PA turnpike), we put vinegar on our fries fairly regularly. Vinegar (the brown kind, not the white kind) is one of the offered condiments on the table or at the counter at non-chain places and it doesn't cause any raised eyebrows except, of course, among visitors who are not familiar with the customs of our people. :)

In reponse to #7 about balsamico being a current BoBo fad: After interviewing several actual BoBos, I must report that balsamico is so five years ago. (It followed the craze for sun-dried tomatoes, which are making a slow comeback, by the way.) Current BoBo fads are influenced by a generalization of the notion of terrior and include being picky about the location of the origin of one's sea salf and buying single-region chocolate (with tasting notes available, of course).

For fries, I vote for the garlic-rosemary frites at The Brewer's Art in Baltimore. They are served with mayonnaise and make the perfect base for a day's drinking.

Duckling, I too have seen those gravy laden fries, again on both sides of the Irish Sea. Sort of like the nuclear waste from Sellafield, something one needs to avoid.

There was a place in Wash. DC when I was a teenager called Frankly Fries. They put vinegar on the fries. You had to eat them quickly, b/c the combination of vinegar and grease could eat through the paper cup (I'm sure it did wonders for my teenage arteries).

Old Bay is good on fries - the diner/truck outside my bldg. offers it. yum.

The garlic-rosemary fries at The Brewer's Art in Baltimore are yummy yummy yummy.

This thread is making me very hungry.

What's not to like about fries with gravy? Salty with salty, and crispy with gooey. There's a local place that does greasy burgers with Stilton and fries with gravy--delicious!

I love fries w/gravy; it's just a crispier version of mashed potatoes and gravy.

I wish there was an English/Irish pub near where I live (NJ). There are lots in the general area, but I'm talking about having one to which I could walk. Close enough to pop in for a pint. Welcoming enough to sit a spell and chew the fat (literally and figuratively) with the other patrons.

An empty restaurant in town is being renovated and the signs are the windows have the U.S. and U.K. flags w/a sign saying, "The British are coming!" I have not been able to find out what this place will be. I have great hopes it will be a place such as I mentioned above. It has the wrong front to it, being all glass, but I can get past that.

Flu -- I am checking with webdev spouse for the url and will post when I get it!

Aaargh!

Just checked the website for The Brewer's Art; looks like that's a must do, and must do soon.

spiffy, just spiffy.

The Washington DC - Baltimore corridor is one of the world's great carparks, but my stomach says go.

*sigh*

Fries with gravy is just on this side of acceptable; it's been tainted by its association with fries with gravy and cheese curds.

Poutine: two days worth of calories at once!

Gravy and cheese curds sounds nasty, but it does remind me of something that's not nasty at all and that no one has mentioned: chili cheese fries. Are these a dying art?

In Taiwan they make fries of sweet potatos or maybe yams. Call them Taiwan fries. I liked them.

Chilli cheese fries are pretty common in chilli joints - it may be the chilli joint itself is the dying breed. I've had chilli cheese fries at Ben's Chilli Bowl on U Street in DC and at Hard Times Cafe in Alexandria, VA.

Of the two, the cheese fries at Ben's are definately the best and Ben's has the added bonus of being down the block from CakeLove, which has the best cupcakes known to mankind.

Hm. Poutine has only been mentioned once, and Canadian President Poutine not at all. How quickly we forget.

Just to continue the Canada-baiting, I think that Shania Twain's duet with Sting in the previous Super Bowl, especially the godawful costume she wore, was far more offensive than Janet Jackson's alleged nipple in the most recent Super Bowl. And don't get me started on Celine Dion.

Ah, Rick Mercer. Jean Poutine. How brilliant that special was.

I'm really waiting for Marge Delahunty to meet with American politicians. That would be something worth watching.

Flu -- www.ukgoods.com

Those of us who teach online courses often find it a challenge to let schools know that we are interested/available to teach online courses for them. It is time consuming to visit school's websites, send in applications, etc. I recently learned of a new solution called FacultyFinder. It is available at http://www.facultyfinder.com. On FacultyFinder faculty types can create a profile for free. The profile includes many variables such as academic background, online teaching experience, learning management system familiarity, etc. Schools can then search FacultyFinder to find online faculty members. Being a new service it is now in phase one of deployment wherein faculty types are creating profiles. Phase two will launch in April wherein schools can begin searching the database. I personally have created a profile and the school at which I serve as Dean of Distance Learning will be using FacultyFinder to help us find persons to teach online courses.

Thanks, Damned Medievalist! May the road to heaven be yours (as illustrated in the 1483 Strasbourg edition of the "Sacra coeli" by Johannes Gobi)

flu

You mean the Scala coeli?

Why has no one mentioned ranch salad dressing?

It does in a pinch when there is no mayo.

BTW - can we start an argument over mayo? Best/Hellmann's is the only possible choice.

I assume no one's mentioned ranch salad dressing because this is polite company.

Ogged says:

greasy burgers with Stilton

I don't know if I want to fly out or disown you.

Can you get Fortnum & Mason cheese in the US? I still have those old stilton jars on my desk...but I never put the stuff on hamburgers.

Go for the flight Fontana, it's damn good on a burger. And no, I don't think you can get the cheese here--but there are places to get Stilton.

Er . . . Scala coeli it is, apparently. Well, whaddaya know. The thought remains the same, however.

Susan says: BTW - can we start an argument over mayo? Best/Hellmann's is the only possible choice.

I can't start an argument with you over mayo. I agree with you... it wouldn't be much of an argument without contradiction.

Careful of the poutine comments: don't knock it until you try it. Especially when the cheese curds are still squeeky.

For those who don't think that the calorie content of poutine can't get any better, there's a deli in Montreal that does poutine topped by a quarter-pound of smoked meat.

Yummy!

"Just to continue the Canada-baiting, I think that Shania Twain's duet with Sting in the previous Super Bowl, especially the godawful costume she wore, was far more offensive than Janet Jackson's alleged nipple in the most recent Super Bowl. And don't get me started on Celine Dion."

Celine is fair game, but I won't hear a word against Shania Twain. Okay, her costumes are a bit much, but she's the best thing that's ever come out of Timmins, Ontario.

Cheese curd is a tasty treat. And gravy on fries is another Canadian speciality (as in, if you order fries at a cafeteria and you *don't* want gravy, you'd better make that clear before they slop it on). I draw the line at poutine.

Hellmanm's really is the best.

I have tried poutine. I feel free to knock it any time I so desire.

I can specifically knock the person I was in classes with who bought it, covered it with ketchup and mustard, then let it sit for the first 90 minutes of the 2 hour lecture. I started out disliking it; I ended up hating even the smell (which is probably where my antipathy to gravy comes from).

Frites Alors! are the best fries in Montreal, bar none.

Didn't Margo Timmins and her seven brothers come from there? Now she IS great.

One of the bad things Shania did was sing a duet with Sting. Not just the costume. I didn't actually listen to her sing or anything.

My niece in Fargo bought Celine's French-language CD's for practice. She's fairly fluent in French. North Dakota also was the site of a curling tournament this winter.

Isn't Avril Lavigne from somewhere near Timmins?

Avril Lavigne is from Napanee, in eastern Ontario, halfway between Ottawa and Toronto. Very far south (south being relative, of course), whereas Timmins (a mining town) is pretty far north.

I think Margo Timmins is from Toronto (but I'm not certain about this).

Someone mentioned chili-cheese fries. They're not at all rare, just go to a burger-and-hot-dog place. Diner-themed places usually have them as well. If you're ever in El Paso, TX, go to Hudson's, or even better, hit up a Village Inn. VI serves green chile-cheese fries, which are ever so much better than mere chili and cheese on top.(And have some pie for desert -- Best. Pecan pie. Ever.)

Neve Campell, from Toronto, is my vote for best Canadian export -- right after IA and President's Choice Chocolate Chocolate Chip Cookies, that is.

No, no, no. The finest Canadian export is my secret girlfriend, Rachel Perry of VH1.

I couldn't resist adding this, having read Isabel's post (#10) about students eating fries on white bread. Sounded suspiciously like a chip butty to me: squashy white-bread roll with fries and butter on it. Saw that in a number of shops in Nottingham but I admit I stuck with the fish instead...
Also have to note the myriad varieties of sauces available in Amsterdam. Our favorite was a Belgian place that had a satay sauce.

So everywhere in Ontario isn't right next to everywhere else in Ontario? I did not know that.

What about Alberta? What part of Ontario are they in, North or South?

Do Ontarians speak standard Canadian, or do they have their own dialect? I'm really love quaint foreign cultures.

You know what's funny? Everyone commented on vinegar and chips - but not on your cracks about Anne Murray which were right on! Cheesy lyrics. Non-Glamour Puss. CIBC burgundy blazer. Absolutely. Maybe it's because Snowbird was a hit in Canada and 34 years ago. They don't know what we're talking about.

one word -Tabasco